\n<\/p>\n
\n\tWhen 5 Seconds of Summer<\/a> were invited to join the nostalgia-heavy When We Were Young Festival<\/a> in 2023, their immediate response was an eager yes. They likely would have ended up on the Las Vegas Festival Grounds even if they weren\u2019t performing. The bill was an exhaustive list of nearly every band they loved and learned from while growing up in Sydney, Australia. 5SOS would be taking the stage after Yellowcard and preceding sets from Sum 41, Good Charlotte, and headliners Green Day<\/a>. It was a no-brainer. <\/p>\n \n\tBut once their initial enthusiasm dissipated, they were slightly perplexed by the offer.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cThe question comes up of, like, \u2018Do we fit?\u2019\u201d guitarist Michael Clifford tells Rolling Stone<\/em>. \u201cAnd, I mean, the answer was still no.\u201d Glancing at the barricade, he could tell who was clearly there for the more veteran acts performing later that night, who first discovered 5SOS during the three years they spent touring with One Direction, and who came across \u201cShe Looks So Perfect\u201d during one of its recurrent viral surges on TikTok. They couldn\u2019t quite nail down their own classification: \u201cAre we an alternative band? Are we pop stars? Are we rock musicians? Are we a boy band? Are we nostalgic?\u201d Everyone there might answer those questions differently, depending on their own entry point into the intersection between pop and punk.<\/p>\n \n\tThe two genres perpetually orbit each other. Every few years, punk goes pop (or vice versa), by way of an unexpected crossover hit or comeback. Veteran acts shift their sound and break into a new era, or a younger generation will capitalize on the hunger for nostalgia. The waves rarely last longer than a few months in the mainstream, but the surge always returns. Territorial fans who didn\u2019t want commercial pop audiences infiltrating their scene in the first place are never too thrilled about new listeners or the pop-leaning pivots from their rock gods. But others who may have once found the genre unfamiliar are introduced to the thrill of hearing a killer pop chorus filtered through riotous guitars and punk percussion.\u00a0<\/p>\n \t\tEditor\u2019s picks<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n \n\tClifford\u2019s earliest pop-punk memories include playing Guitar Hero and watching Blink-182<\/a> drummer Travis Barker cover \u201cCrank That (Soulja Boy)\u201d on YouTube in 2007. That same year, Paramore <\/a>released the disruptive LP Riot!, <\/em>Fall Out Boy<\/a> teamed up with Jay-Z and Babyface on Infinity of High, <\/em>Avril Lavigne <\/a>became The Best Damn Thing <\/em>to hit pop in a while, and Boys Like Girls were making \u201cThe Great Escape.\u201d Over the years, the route pop-punk could take to the mainstream was similarly altered by crossover hits from Machine Gun Kelly, Lil Peep, Halsey, Willow, and more. Each new surge showed straight-laced pop fans that there was always more happening on the outskirts of their favorite genre.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cWith songwriting, it\u2019s interesting because the pop punk and emo genres [have] simple chord progressions, not a lot of parts, very clear concept, good emotional lyrics, really catchy melodies, are highly energetic \u2014 that\u2019s essentially pop music,\u201d says producer and songwriter Andrew Goldstein, whose collaborators have spanned from Blink-182 and Bring Me the Horizon to Addison Rae and Britney Spears. \u201cMost pop music is three to four chords, a really catchy melody, and a concept that almost anyone can understand. That\u2019s what really connects with people. Those similarities are what really allows for these artists to become a lot bigger.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tPop-punk first sunk its teeth into Goldstein at the turn of the millennium. He came across New Found Glory and Sum 41, as well as emo leaders Taking Back Sunday and Thursday, but it was Blink-182 that rewired him musically. Finding them right on the cusp of Enema of the State<\/em> made him want to pick up a guitar and connect with an audience the way that his new favorite band did with him. \u201cI remember my friend\u2019s older brother was like, \u2018Oh, they sold out,\u2019\u201d he says. \u201cIf somebody becomes popular, it\u2019s easy to say that they\u2019re selling out because there\u2019s different steps you have to take to accommodate the fan base.\u201d Playing bigger venues, mass ordering merchandise, recording in high-tech studios \u2014 all of that could be considered selling out. For pop fans, it\u2019s unfathomable that anyone would want anything else.\u00a0<\/p>\n \t\tRelated Content<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n \n\tThat was the case with 5SOS. \u201cWe always said from the beginning, we want to be as big as fucking possible,\u201d Clifford says. Coming from Australia, they had to make their shot count. Before they\u2019d released any music of their own, 5SOS shared A Day to Remember and Go Radio covers alongside renditions of One Direction and Justin Bieber tracks on YouTube. Green Day and Blink-182\u2019s influence was impossible to ignore across their self-titled debut album, released in 2014, and the lasting impression of acts like Mayday Parade<\/a> and All Time Low appeared clearly on its follow-up, Sounds Good Feels Good<\/em>. But their sticky melodies and hooks always wore the touch of pop, too.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cThat style of music had taken such a downturn, and nobody was into it,\u201d Clifford says of the pop-punk scene at the time. \u201cWe were like, \u2018Well, hold on, we have a good idea where we can bring that back into the mainstream.\u2019 And, yes, there are going to have to be some changes when you evolve to bring that style of music somewhere else.\u201d 5SOS leaned into \u201cthe traits people were liking about boy band culture\u201d since it was \u201call anyone would fucking talk about,\u201d anyway; but they were still \u201clonging for acceptance from a community that we were so passionately representing.\u201d It came at a cost. \u201cWe were just shunned by the community instantly,\u201d Clifford says. \u201cThey sort of just looked at how we looked and wrote it off.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tIf the genre wanted to thrive and survive, it couldn\u2019t keep treating pop success like a death sentence. \u201cSometimes people are ahead of the curve, and it takes time for them to realize the brilliance of a record when it comes out,\u201d says producer-songwriter John Feldmann, whose sprawling credits include Panic! at the Disco\u2019s Vices & Virtues. <\/em>Change can be hard \u2014 and there was no tougher time for OG pop-punk fans than 2013. They were already reeling from My Chemical Romance breaking up and feeling disconnected from Panic! at the Disco\u2019s directional shift on Too Weird to Live, Too Rare to Die<\/em>. They were also being reintroduced to Fall Out Boy following an extended hiatus while Paramore marked the beginning of a creative transformation with an explosive crossover hit.<\/p>\n \n\tFeldmann saw Paramore lay the foundation for that moment years prior, when he first heard \u201cThat\u2019s What You Get,\u201d a blazing rock track from Riot! <\/em>with an undeniable hook. <\/em>He remembers Fueled by Ramen founder John Janick telling him, \u201cWe can\u2019t put this out. It\u2019s too early for this band. They can\u2019t be that popular quite yet.\u201d They\u2019d already broken through with \u201cMisery Business,\u201d but this could have gotten them stuck on the other side. \u201cWith pop, it\u2019s harder to create a legacy because it takes a lot of time,\u201d says Goldstein. \u201cIt takes a lot of fans.\u201d Fans in the pop-punk scene fostered a different sense of loyalty than pop did, and they expected it to be reciprocated.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tParamore\u2019s progression to that point needed to be natural in order for it to work. \u201cYou can really see the writing on the wall with that song,\u201d Feldmann says. \u201cYou know how \u2018Still Into You\u2019 became one of their biggest songs? That was already set up with \u2018That\u2019s What You Get.\u2019\u201d By 2013, Paramore were on their fourth album and umpteenth lineup change. They\u2019d get nothing but false security out of moving backwards and rehashing the music they already made while clearly yearning to evolve. It\u2019s understandable why listeners would crave the kind of music they discovered during their formative years. \u201cThose are the records that shape your whole existence,\u201d Feldmann adds, but notes that \u201cevery artist should be able to experiment and not be harassed for expanding their sonic horizon.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tIt\u2019s the same crossroad Fall Out Boy faced when they recorded their fifth album, Save Rock & Roll<\/em>. \u201cI wasn\u2019t interested in making a pop punk record with anybody. I was kind of burned out on that, just like I think most people were,\u201d producer Butch Walker tells Rolling Stone<\/em>. \u201cThey didn\u2019t care about that. They were like, \u2018No, we\u2019re gonna lose a lot of fans, but we need to make new fans. We need to appeal to a whole new generation of people. Or why are we doing this? We\u2019re not growing as a band.\u2019\u201d When they re-entered the pop arena at the time, it was dominated by artists like Rihanna, One Direction, and Macklemore. Their lane was wide open.<\/p>\n \n\tFor an entire wave of pop fans, the band helped translate pop-punk into a format they could easily access. When Fall Out Boy released \u201cMy Songs Know What You Did in the Dark,\u201d Taylor Swift<\/a> told her 25 million Twitter followers that she\u2019d listened to it 43 times in one day. \u201cI love Fall Out Boy so much,\u201d Swift told Rolling Stone<\/em><\/a> <\/em>in 2019. \u201cTheir songwriting really influenced me, lyrically, maybe more than anyone else. They take a phrase and they twist it.\u201d The two acts shared a collaborator in Walker, who can recall the first time he heard Green Day\u2019s Dookie<\/em> in a Nebraska parking lot as clearly as he can remember Swift showing him \u201cEverything Has Changed\u201d the morning she wrote it.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tAs producer, he had \u201cno notes.\u201d The Red <\/em>single arrived in near-perfect shape, even with the bathroom tiles reverberating through the voice note. Walker ranks Swift as \u201cone of the best songwriters in pop music ever,\u201d and expresses the same enthusiasm when praising Pete Wentz. \u201cShe made the right call by being influenced by that, because I think that is the DNA in her music,\u201d he says. When Walker first encountered Fall Out Boy, they were unsigned, \u201ca fucking trainwreck on stage,\u201d and already writing ingenious lyrics. \u201cHow are they thinking this big and how are they thinking this poetically?\u201d he remembers wondering. \u201cPete has just got a way with words like no one else.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cMy Songs Know What You Did in the Dark\u201d ended up being Fall Out Boy\u2019s biggest hit since \u201cThnks Fr Th Mmrs.\u201d For Walker, it represents \u201ca classic example of a band taking the guard rails off, taking the boundaries off, pushing the walls down.\u201d The song started with John Hill during pitch sessions for another artist\u2019s album, but collected dust for a year before Walker played the rough demo for the band. They lunged for it. \u201cThe guys were like, \u2018That\u2019s our sound. That\u2019s our new record. Urgent, powerful, hooky, dirty, loud, aggressive \u2014 but poppy.\u201d <\/p>\n \n\tDuring our call, Walker digs up that original voice note and hits play. It confirms that the melody of the chorus has always been that irresistible. \u201cDo you want to hear the punch line?\u201d he asks. \u201cThat was actually written for Rihanna<\/a>.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tIt\u2019s intriguing to imagine what the pop star could have done with it. The closest we\u2019ve gotten to Rock Rihanna is Rated R<\/em>\u2019s \u201cRockstar 101\u201d with Slash and \u201cDisturbia\u201d \u2014 not the original Good Girl Gone Bad <\/em>single, but the cover The Cab recorded for Punk Goes Pop <\/em>in 2009. \u201cPunk Goes Pop was such a tremendous thing,\u201d Goldstein says of the Fearless Records compilation series in which pop songs get rock makeovers. \u201cIt showed the strength of good songs. It was a big gateway into pop music for people to be like, \u2018Wow, I like the song, it\u2019s just maybe I don\u2019t like the presentation of it.\u2019\u201d <\/em>Mayday Parade and Pierce the Veil reimagined Gotye\u2019s \u201cSomebody That I Used to Know,\u201d and years later State Champs revamped Shawn Mendes\u2019 \u201cStitches.\u201d Punk Goes Pop<\/em> offered the best of both worlds.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cThere was something about these pop songs that I already knew all the lyrics to because they were constantly on the radio suddenly having screams and heavy guitars and drums,\u201d says Ada Juarez, drummer in the pop-punk band Meet Me @ the Altar<\/a>. During their live shows, they often cover Kelly Clarkson\u2019s \u201cSince U Been Gone\u201d and Jonas Brothers\u2019 \u201cBurnin\u2019 Up\u201d with an intense rock edge. 5SOS, who they joined on the road in 2023, did the same with Katy Perry\u2019s \u201cTeenage Dream\u201d early in their career. \u201cEveryone who would come see us was like, \u2018Dude, if you guys could write a song like \u2018Teenage Dream,\u2019 you\u2019d be the biggest band in the world,\u201d Clifford recalls. \u201cAnd I was like, \u2018Well, that is the hardest fucking thing to do.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tAnd while it\u2019s essential for a song to be great, the performance has to be convincing, too. \u201cIf you go to completely what your fans want, you could please them very well, but it might not connect,\u201d says Goldstein. \u201cBut if you go too far into, \u2018Man, I\u2019m going to make something mainstream\u2019 or \u2018What do people want? What\u2019s relevant right now?\u2019 \u2014 that\u2019s when you can get in trouble. It doesn\u2019t sound real anymore. I can tell what you were referencing and it\u2019s that song that was out six months ago. By the time the record comes out, whatever sound you were going for is done.\u201d When pop-punk surged back into the mainstream<\/a> in 2020, fueled by lockdown angst and Machine Gun Kelly, corners of the industry rushed to capitalize on it.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cYou guys have to jump back on and do what you did in the beginning,\u2019\u201d Clifford recalls being told.\u00a05SOS are more pop than punk these days, though the guitarist\u2019s recently-released debut solo album Sidequest<\/em><\/a> <\/em>does revive those influences. \u201cWe were all very clearly like, no,\u201d he says. \u201cIt wasn\u2019t our place.\u201d Other artists figured it was worth a shot. For years, Demi Lovato\u2019s OG fans yearned for her return to rock. Her Disney-era records were influential in showing a young audience that they could be rockstars, too. But when she finally gave in with Holy Fvck<\/em> in 2022, it failed to crossover despite her pop capital and emo kid roots. \u201cIt definitely felt just like a cash grab, in a way,\u201d Meet Me @ the Altar\u2019s Edith Victoria says. \u201cHad she done that years prior, I think we all would have loved it.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \t\tTrending Stories<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n \n\tThe prior year, breakout star Olivia Rodrigo<\/a> drew comparisons to Hayley Williams, Avril Lavigne, and Alanis Morissette when her pop-punk singles \u201cGood 4 U\u201d and \u201cBrutal\u201d crashed onto the Hot 100, establishing her as a genre-transcending force. \u201cOlivia Rodrigo pushed that genre further than anybody else in as long as I can remember,\u201d Clifford says. \u201cShe took the DNA and the foundation of what made pop-punk and gave it this fresh new life.\u201d When she leaned into the sound even more on Guts<\/em>, it never felt contrived. Feldmann praises \u201cAll-American Bitch,\u201d drawing parallels to the alternative edge of Sonic Youth and Green Day. To his credit, Machine Gun Kelly also \u201copened the doors for a lot of people to be influenced by him, to make whatever pop-punk music will turn into in the future,\u201d Juarez says, just like Paramore and Pierce the Veil did for them. \u201cIt\u2019s just evolving forever.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tAt this point in 2025, nothing on the Hot 100 sounds even slightly reminiscent of pop-punk. The familiar <\/a>is prevailing. But another surge could be right around the corner. The hardcore punk band Turnstile could open the gateway with their new genre-blurring album Never Enough<\/em>, or Pierce the Veil could ride the unexpected viral fervor swelling on TikTok around their deep cut \u201cSo Far So Fake\u201d straight through pop\u2019s barricade. If the next installation in Beyonc\u00e9\u2019s genre-shifting album trilogy really is rock<\/a>, that could be another prominent entry point for the bands who can\u2019t wait to sell out. They don\u2019t have to fit into the pop landscape immediately. They just have to go for it. It\u2019s that passion that keeps pop-punk\u2019s perpetual love affair alive.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n
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