{"id":72259,"date":"2026-09-08T14:09:35","date_gmt":"2026-09-08T14:09:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/2026\/09\/08\/joy-division-stephen-morris-on-eternal-stepping-away-from-new-order\/"},"modified":"2026-09-08T14:09:35","modified_gmt":"2026-09-08T14:09:35","slug":"joy-division-stephen-morris-on-eternal-stepping-away-from-new-order","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/2026\/09\/08\/joy-division-stephen-morris-on-eternal-stepping-away-from-new-order\/","title":{"rendered":"Joy Division Stephen Morris on &#8216;Eternal,&#8217; Stepping Away From New Order"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tA little over a year after <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/t\/joy-division\/\" id=\"auto-tag_joy-division\" data-tag=\"joy-division\">Joy Division<\/a> frontman Ian Curtis committed suicide, the remaining members of the band \u2014 who were already touring and recording under the name <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/t\/new-order\/\" id=\"auto-tag_new-order\" data-tag=\"new-order\">New Order<\/a> \u2014 released the compilation album <em>Still.<\/em> It\u2019s a collection of studio outtakes and live performances, including Joy Division\u2019s final concert.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t\u201cWe felt that was everything,\u201d Joy Division\/New Order drummer <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/t\/stephen-morris\/\" id=\"auto-tag_stephen-morris\" data-tag=\"stephen-morris\">Stephen Morris<\/a> says today, sitting in the office of his home in Rainow, England. \u201cWe were tying up all the loose ends. \u2018Thank you, there won\u2019t be anymore.\u2019 We were naive because that never really happens, does it? There\u2019s always something lurking somewhere.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tThere was indeed. And in the decades that followed, even though New Order took up much of their time, they still released several Joy Division compilation albums, concert recordings, their BBC Recordings, the John Peel Sessions, and deluxe editions of 1979\u2019s <em>Unknown Pleasures<\/em> and 1980\u2019s <em>Closer.<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tBut this wasn\u2019t nearly enough for Joy Division\u2019s rabid fanbase, and there\u2019s been a thriving black market for bootleg concert recordings for decades, even though the sound quality of most of the tapes varies from half-decent to borderline inaudible.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tThat\u2019s changing on Sept. 25 with the release of the 14-disc box set <em>Eternal (Live).<\/em> It\u2019s an assemblage of 16 Joy Division concerts, including two that have never been heard anywhere, all of which have received significant sonic upgrades. There are also two DVDs that contain two hours and 30 minutes of concert footage, along with a new edit of the 1982 movie <em>Joy Division \u2013 A Malcolm Whitehead Film.<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tTo be clear, many of these live recordings are sourced from fans who snuck cassette recorders into concert halls. Much of the footage is also quite rudimentary. And even though the original cassettes were tracked down and engineers at Abbey Road Studios extracted every bit of possible data, there are limits to what they could have achieved considering the source material.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tStill, this is a dream project for hardcore Joy Division fans. To learn all about it, we chatted with Stephen Morris. The conversation also touched on Joy Division\/New Order\u2019s upcoming induction into the Rock &amp; Roll Hall of Fame, the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/music\/music-news\/new-order-gillian-gilbert-stephen-morris-not-touring-health-1235586203\/\">\u201cpersonal health matters\u201d<\/a> that are keeping him and his wife, New Order keyboardist Gillian Gilbert, off the band\u2019s upcoming South American tour, and the war with former New Order bassist Peter Hook that\u2019s been raging for well over a decade.<\/p>\n<section class=\"brands-most-popular \/\/ editors-pick-module lrv-u-margin-tb-2 lrv-u-border-a-2 u-box-shadow-5-5 lrv-u-padding-lr-1 a-span1 u-padding-b-1@tablet u-overflow-hidden\">\n<h2 id=\"section-heading\" class=\"c-heading larva  lrv-u-text-align-center u-border-color-black a-font-theme-primary-xxs lrv-u-color-black lrv-u-text-transform-uppercase u-letter-spacing-0063 lrv-u-padding-t-050 u-padding-b-0375@tablet lrv-u-padding-b-050@mobile-max lrv-u-border-b-2\">\n<p>\t\tEditor\u2019s picks<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Transmission (Live Les Bains Douches, Paris 18th December, 1979)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"900\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/cUXhMhLRptg?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>You still live near Macclesfield?<\/strong><br \/>Yes. I\u2019ve never moved, really. I\u2019ve stayed here all my life. It\u2019s easy because I know where the shops are.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Let\u2019s get into this new live box set. Joy Division bootlegs have been a cottage industry since the 1980s. How did you feel about that?<\/strong><br \/>I like bootlegs. I collect them. I can see the point of them. And I think early on, people must have liked us because they were going to the trouble of bootlegging us. We were very naive though. As you said, it was a cottage industry.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>They were making money off your work and not giving you a dime.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah, I did say I was naive. It\u2019s a double-edged sword. Half of them you can say, \u201cOh, it\u2019s great. People are taking the time to make these bootlegs. That\u2019s lovely.\u201d And then eventually you think, \u201cHang on, we make absolutely zero money from this.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>You began putting out your own live shows eventually. The Paris show you released in 2001 sounded incredible.<\/strong><br \/><em>Les Bains Douches. <\/em>Sonically, it\u2019s really good. I could go on and on because I\u2019ve been working on this [box set] for years, and it\u2019s finally coming September. What will I do with my life afterwards?<\/p>\n<section class=\"brands-most-popular \/\/ recirculation-modules lrv-u-margin-tb-2 lrv-u-border-a-2 u-box-shadow-5-5 lrv-u-padding-lr-1 a-span1 u-padding-b-1@tablet u-overflow-hidden\">\n<h2 id=\"section-heading\" class=\"c-heading larva  lrv-u-text-align-center u-border-color-black a-font-theme-primary-xxs lrv-u-color-black lrv-u-text-transform-uppercase u-letter-spacing-0063 lrv-u-padding-t-050 u-padding-b-0375@tablet lrv-u-padding-b-050@mobile-max lrv-u-border-b-2\">\n<p>\t\tRelated Content<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Tell me the backstory of <em>Eternal.<\/em> Fans have wanted all the shows in one place for years. How long ago did you start actually making this happen?<\/strong><br \/>There have been so many bootlegs. And if you go and do this thing, it\u2019s kind of, \u201cWe\u2019ll get the best of the best ones and we\u2019ll do a definitive thing.\u201d And you would think, considering it\u2019s all out there, that would be quite an easy thing to do, but it turned out it wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tYou don\u2019t realize that bootleggers have it easy. They\u2019re free to break the law, and it seems that nobody does anything about it, and it\u2019s great. I\u2019d love to be an outlaw. But when you do it yourself, the record company is quite conscious of being litigated against. So we have to do everything by the book.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tFor instance, the Paris show, which Tony [Wilson] put out first. It was like, \u201cYeah, okay. Yeah, it\u2019s fine. We\u2019ll license it. Yes, you can license it. We want a lot of money. And then you can \u2026\u201d \u201cNo, no, no. That\u2019s too much money.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tYou bargain. You get to the end. We\u2019ve reached an agreement. \u201cOkay, let us have the tape.\u201d \u201cTape? We\u2019ve not got a tape. We thought you had the tape.\u201d \u201cNo, we\u2019ve not got the tape. Why do you think we\u2019re trying to give you money for it?\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tAnd so you get the tape because it was a radio broadcast. I think it was broadcast two or three times. A lot of it had the DJ talking over the top of it, which was funny, I suppose, but not really what you want. To have someone talking over the top of it, it would\u2019ve been unusual, but I think it marred the experience somewhat so that we had to do a number on that to find different versions, find the better version, get the DJ off, edit it all together. So it ends up being a bit of a compromise because of that.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"JOY DIVISION - Live, Effenaar, Eindhoven 01\/18\/1980 [AUD Rework]\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/iAXpgIDnvi4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Many of the other tapes on here were sourced from fans who snuck recorders into shows. How did you get the master tapes and clean them up? I\u2019m sure that wasn\u2019t easy.<\/strong><br \/>No, because then you discover the people who do these, they\u2019re quite\u2026fanatical? I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s right. They\u2019re very enthusiastic about it. And some of these tapes are very closely guarded. They\u2019re very precious to them. And there probably is only one original tape, but people have gone home and tinkered with them and said, \u201cMy tape, a cassette that I\u2019ve done sounds better than the original. I\u2019ve done a boost roundabout 4K that makes all the difference. Ian comes alive.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tAnd it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, look, all we want is that earliest generation one, it might not sound as good as your one, but then we\u2019ll be able to do a number on it and make it sound better. If you\u2019ve already done it, then we are kind of stuck with what you\u2019ve done.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tBut yeah, the fans are great. They\u2019re very <em>passionate,<\/em> that\u2019s the word, not fanatical. They\u2019re very passionate about it. And by and large, they were good, willing to help.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>So they passed along the master cassettes?<\/strong><br \/>That\u2019s right. Also, we used to record Joy Division gigs on a reel-to-reel. And a lot of cassettes were based on these reel-to-reel originals because they mysteriously disappeared, as these things do. We did find first generation copies in [Joy Division] Rob Gretton\u2019s archive, and we used some of those, the ones that weren\u2019t stolen.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>You even give credit to the audience tapers by name, like Jonathan Crabb and Duncan Haysom. You don\u2019t usually see that on official releases.<\/strong><br \/>That\u2019s only fair really, because we wouldn\u2019t have been able to do this without their cooperation. You got to acknowledge it, really.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>So you take these tapes to Abbey Road and use basically the best equipment to clean them up?<\/strong><br \/>It seems ridiculous, doesn\u2019t it? I mean, I think there was one, I can\u2019t remember, it might have been the Hope and Anchor one, which was exceedingly precious. He wouldn\u2019t give us the tape. He had to go to Abbey Road to supervise the cassette being transferred, but that\u2019s okay. Takes all sorts.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Cassettes from 45 years ago can be pretty fragile. You can play it once and watch it turn to dust.<\/strong><br \/>Tell me about it. I\u2019ve got a box full of tapes. I\u2019m not very good at labeling tapes. The great thing about these bootleggers, they\u2019re quite meticulous about keeping notes, which is what you want. Me, not so much. And so I got this bunch of unlabeled cassettes and I\u2019m going through them. I found one and it just said \u201crehearsal.\u201d I placed it in the cassette player, and went, \u201cOh my God. This is Joy Division in 1976. This is great\u2026\u201d Then..snap.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>No!<\/strong><br \/>I had to relearn how to edit.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Were you able to save it?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. It didn\u2019t dissolve. It only snapped. I used to be able to edit tapes, but it was an art I\u2019d lost. But I did it and sorted it out and maybe we\u2019ll use that on something else.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"JOY DIVISION (Warsaw) - &amp;apos;At A Later Date&amp;apos;, Live, Electric Circus, Manchester 10\/02\/1977 [SBD]\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/DCZ9cpOscJA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>This box starts in March of 1979, but there are recordings of Joy Division in 1977, when you were still called Warsaw. Did you not want to go back that far?<\/strong><br \/>Right. There are recordings. I mean, the first thing that somebody said, \u201cOh, well, you should use the Live at the Electric Circus,\u201d which was Warsaw. We said, \u201cOkay, fine. Where is it?\u201d We were going to have to make a copy of the bloody [bootleg] record, but do that \u2026 It didn\u2019t feel right, really. And also, it was only one song, I believe. I mean, I used to have it. That\u2019s why I was going through the box of cassettes. I used to have a cassette of two songs. I think it had \u201cNovelty\u201d as well on the recording for Live at the Electric Circus, but I couldn\u2019t find it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tAnd it was really okay, \u201cIf we\u2019re going to have one criteria, it should be the whole gig.\u201d And if you can\u2019t even do that, then just sticking the one song on\u2026<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>It\u2019s interesting that there\u2019s assorted bits of 1977 live material, but then really nothing from 1978. It\u2019s sort of this lost year.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. I mean, there must be stuff somewhere. I mean, I\u2019m sure there is, but if it\u2019s not out there, there\u2019s probably a good reason for it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>The set starts with Hope and Anchor on March 1, 1979. That\u2019s a fascinating moment in time since it\u2019s right before you recorded <em>Unknown Pleasures.<\/em> It\u2019s basically how Martin Hannett heard the band before he produced the record?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah, that\u2019s right. That\u2019s actually what we sounded like and how we thought the record was going to sound. [Laughs]<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"New Dawn Fades (2007 Remaster)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"900\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/7j5LmyNNsrE?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>I know you\u2019ve gone over this a lot, but tell me how you felt about the sound of the record back then, and how you feel now?<\/strong><br \/>How did it feel then? Well, you see, I\u2019m biased because I was Martin\u2019s victim in this thing. I spent an awful lot of time doing those drums. I mean, the thing is, it\u2019s like the first time you hear your voice on a tape recorder, you go, \u201cThat\u2019s not me. I don\u2019t sound anything like that.\u201d Yeah, your reaction is one of disgust.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tI think people thought they were going to sound like the Stooges, which was never ever going to happen with Martin. We knew that wasn\u2019t going to happen. But, yeah, there was a bit of shock, but you couldn\u2019t do it again. There was no money. That was it. It\u2019s too late. We were doing it on [poet and performance artist] John Cooper Clarke\u2019s clock. It was his downtime we were doing it on. It\u2019s great to say, \u201cNow I want him to do it again. It was so terrible.\u201d No, it was just different.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tAnd it was the difference that made it a great record. The unusual thing, which I should just point out, is I\u2019ve been doing some Atmos stuff with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/music\/music-features\/steven-wilson-best-remixes-who-dead-stones-sabbath-1235453878\/\">Steven Wilson.<\/a> We\u2019ve done <em>Unknown Pleasures<\/em>, which is finished, and I\u2019m not entirely sure what we\u2019re going to do with it at all, but it was absolutely fascinating to go back to the original multi-tracks. It sounds like another band.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Joy Division - September 22 1979  London, England (audio)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"900\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/DP_rrOFWg1U?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Listening to the shows on the box in sequential order, it\u2019s fascinating to hear how the four of you evolved as a band. You got tighter and tighter.<\/strong><br \/>Yes, that\u2019s what I thought as well. It\u2019s great how it kind of starts off like that. There\u2019s a point where we\u2019re almost professional and then the equipment lets us down.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>The Factory show from July 13, 1979, was also previously unheard. Where did that one come from?<\/strong><br \/>That was one of the ones that we recorded on reel-to-reel that was in Rob\u2019s attic. That\u2019s how he found that one. He had two tapes, and that one had never been out before.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Tell me about the process of cleaning up the sound at Abbey Road. What technology were you using?<\/strong><br \/>Expensive technology. [Laughs] I mean, there\u2019s only so much you can do, really. You can only do your best with what you\u2019ve got. And there\u2019s a very fine line because sometimes you can push it too far and end up with something that actually \u2026 Although it might be technically better, it actually doesn\u2019t sound any better. I mean, the worst thing of all was the Plan K gig that\u2019s on the DVD. I mean, we\u2019ve had that for years and people went, \u201cWhy have they not put it out? Why has it remained under wraps? Why are they hiding it?\u201d Because it sounds like a washing machine.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>That\u2019s pretty unfortunate.<\/strong><br \/>It was recorded just on a VHS camcorder. Wasn\u2019t even a camcorder, but a video microphone which compressed it. And God knows, we\u2019ve tried everything. I think we even recruited an AI at one point, which refused it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Peter Jackson developed that stem separation technology for the Beatles\u2019 <em>Get Back<\/em> project. Did you try anything like that?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. We separated out six tracks from the Plan K show. We just got six tracks of washing machine.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Did you use stem separation technology on the cleaner audience tapes?<\/strong><br \/>There was no stem separation used on it. We did try. Actually, I think there were a couple where we\u2019ve done some of these as matrixes, which is like the equivalent of stem separation where they mix together an audience tape and a desk tape, and that was one technique that got used.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Ceremony (Live at Birmingham University) [2007 Remaster]\" width=\"1200\" height=\"900\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/D1Ew6UVFR-I?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>The holy grail for so many Joy Division fans is the full \u201cCeremony\u201d from the Birmingham show. This is the first time it\u2019s been heard from beginning to end.<\/strong><br \/>That\u2019s right. It was a shock the first time I heard it as well, because I\u2019d just been listening to just bits of it when I finally heard it all together. I was like, \u201cIs this another gig that someone has stuck on?\u201d But yeah, it\u2019s all there, although there\u2019s a certain difference in quality. I mean, it was always a disaster because the microphone wasn\u2019t on really. I mean, that\u2019s the thing. If there\u2019s nothing actually on any tape, you can\u2019t improve it. But we did what we could.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>How did you guys even get the lyrics right when you redid it in New Order if every version is so muffled?<\/strong><br \/>Because we\u2019d rehearsed it and recorded the rehearsals. Although Ian did change the lyrics as he went on. That was one of the most painful things we had to do after Ian went was to sit down and write the words. Yeah, that was painful.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>The books and documentaries always talk about how Ian\u2019s seizures were getting really bad near the end. I can\u2019t imagine the stress of playing a show when you didn\u2019t know if your singer was going to be able to get through it.<\/strong><br \/>We never really thought like that because Ian would always say, \u201cI\u2019m all right. I\u2019m fine. I\u2019m fine. It\u2019s okay. It\u2019s okay.\u201d Even though you\u2019d look at him and think, \u201cWell, maybe you\u2019re not feeling too good?\u201d So no, he wouldn\u2019t \u2026 I think he was frightened of letting you down or something. But yeah, it was pretty awful sometimes.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve thought about what could have happened if he had lived. Are you able to imagine how the \u201980s and beyond might have unfolded?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah, I\u2019ve got several timelines of that. My favorite one that comes closest to a happy ending is that he gave up, because he was very literate, he was great at writing his lyrics in particular and poetry, he was into poetry and all that. I like to think he might have left music and taken up some sort of literary career as an author or something like that, which is a far less taxing career than being the singer in a band. I think that way we could have all had reasonably happy lives.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>For so many fans, his death and the circumstances behind it cast an enormous shadow over all of the work and the entire saga. There\u2019s this impression it was just an incredibly morose time for everyone. I\u2019m sure that\u2019s not how it felt as you were living it.<\/strong><br \/>No, completely the opposite. People\u2019s idea of Joy Division is from a series of black and white photographs, which give you a very skimpy impression of somebody. But you could be forgiven for looking at those photographs and thinking he was some kind of terminal depressive, but it wasn\u2019t really. Ian was just a normal person who liked normal things, and most of the time he smiled and laughed and joked.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tThe one that always makes me laugh nowadays is particularly young people seem to think that Joy Division in the late \u201970s was some kind of massive band that played stadiums. We actually played every night to maybe 200 people. That would be it.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>When I walk around New York now, I see so many people, including teenagers, wearing an<em> Unknown Pleasures<\/em> t-shirt. It\u2019s just everywhere. That must blow your mind.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah, that does. It\u2019s weird. I mean, it\u2019s a meme or whatever you call it. [Art director] Peter Saville was always good at coming up with intellectual explanations of things. But it means absolutely nothing, and so you can take this thing and make it mean whatever you want. And people have no idea what it is. It\u2019s a pulsar signal. But it\u2019s something that you can put your own interpretation on, and that was what we liked.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Joy Division Live Plan K\" width=\"1200\" height=\"900\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/q27CRlcLjbk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>As you said, the sound of the Plan K footage is about as bad as it gets. But it\u2019s still revelatory to see Ian perform for that long. I\u2019ve really only ever seen the BBC and <em>Something Else<\/em> clips.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. I mean, we have cleaned the video up and cleaned the sound up as much as we can. And you wouldn\u2019t think it, but I really enjoyed watching it and I got quite emotional watching it because all the previous times have been like, \u201cOh God, this sounds terrible.\u201d But I did actually enjoy the last iterations of it, and I think we did a good job there. And Ian looks great. If it wasn\u2019t for that pillar [blocking a portion of the stage].\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Is the Joy Division vault totally empty now?<\/strong><br \/>Well, there\u2019s my cassette, which has a song nobody has heard before, and there\u2019s a few other things. But forgetting that, there is the Atmos stuff which is already mentioned, which is sounding really good. I mean, <em>Unknown Pleasures<\/em> is frightening.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Are you going to make an Atmos mix for <em>Closer<\/em> next?<\/strong><br \/><em>Closer<\/em> is pretty much there as well. I think the idea was to do an everything, the complete studio works, and put it all out.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>After that, will the vaults be empty?<\/strong><br \/>We thought that when we did <em>Still.<\/em> Somebody will always have something.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Maybe some future technology can take the Plan K footage and make it look amazing and sound amazing.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. And get rid of the pillar. That\u2019d be good.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Moving into the present, you\u2019re getting inducted into the Rock &amp; Roll Hall of Fame in November. Are you going to go to that?<\/strong><br \/>Right, that\u2019s a good question. I\u2019ve got to hold my hands up and say\u2026I don\u2019t get awards. I do <em>get<\/em> awards, and in a way that\u2019s the problem. I don\u2019t understand the point of them. I\u2019ve tried. I have really, really, <em>believe me,<\/em> tried. Unsuccessfully, I\u2019ve tried giving awards. I\u2019ve tried receiving awards. I\u2019ve just gone and watched other people getting awards, and I\u2019ve just come away feeling a bit like Peggy Lee. \u201cIs that all there is? What is it about?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tI don\u2019t get it. I don\u2019t get it \u2026 And the Rock &amp; Roll Hall of Fame in particular, I mean, I must admit at the beginning, I was suckered as we all were three years ago. Oh, it\u2019s great when it first came up. It\u2019s the fans who were voting for this, and that\u2019s great. And I was there voting for myself trying \u2026 And then we didn\u2019t get in.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\tAnd then I realized that I was being duped. It wasn\u2019t entirely the fans. That\u2019s what I could understand. The people who came last got in, and the people who came top just were like, \u201cOh, see you later, alligator.\u201d Which I felt was a bit unfair to the people who went to the trouble of voting.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>So you might go in November? You just don\u2019t know yet?<\/strong><br \/>I\u2019ve got a bit of a health problem at the minute, which precludes leaving the country for any length of time. We did try. We went to an exhibition, the Ian Curtis lyrics exhibition in New York a few months ago and thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll see how this goes. If this goes all right, it might be worth thinking\u2026\u201d And that was only two days, and it just ended in disaster. So maybe not, maybe, but I can\u2019t really say things will get better, because they won\u2019t.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"New Order 2025 - Live in Cruel World Festival Brookside at the Rose Bowl Pasadena\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hFbVvnugNnU?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>New Order are touring South America in November. You won\u2019t be there and Gillian won\u2019t be either, correct?<\/strong><br \/>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Do you hope to be able to return to the band at some point?<\/strong><br \/>I don\u2019t know. I really don\u2019t want to dwell on what this illness is, but it\u2019s pretty serious. It\u2019s not something that someone\u2019s going to come up with a cure for.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>I\u2019m really sorry to hear that. I won\u2019t pry.<\/strong><br \/>Thanks. I can\u2019t really not do music. That\u2019d be a bit like losing a leg or something far worse. So, yeah, and I can\u2019t really see me\u2026 I still see Bernard [Sumner] and Phil [Cunningham] and Tom [Chapman] and we\u2019re all mates, it\u2019s fine. I\u2019m sure something will \u2026 I mean, if it was a gig down the road, I\u2019m sure we\u2019d be all right.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>It\u2019s the traveling.<\/strong><br \/>Right. You can\u2019t really do that sort of thing if you\u2019ve got to do another country, which is \u2026 I can say it\u2019s the interesting part. I do enjoy going to new places and seeing new things. And that\u2019s how you make money these days. You can\u2019t just do a gig at the village town hall, but it would be fun.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Are you still playing drums?<\/strong><br \/>Oh, yeah. I\u2019m still playing drums. I\u2019ve unfortunately discovered YouTube videos, which tell you how to play drums better. So, yeah, it\u2019s very interesting. They say \u201cplay drums like the pros.\u201d And I can\u2019t do any of those things.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>You\u2019ve always sounded like a pro to me.<\/strong><br \/>I may start doing my own series of YouTube videos along those lines. \u201cDon\u2019t listen to everybody. Use the link below. Sign up and subscribe.\u201d [Laughs]<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>There\u2019s never been a New Order gig without you. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s strange for you think about that happening.<\/strong><br \/>Yeah, it is strange. It\u2019s very weird, but it\u2019s kind of like it was the only way really, because what would\u2019ve been worse to say, \u201cYeah, yeah, yeah, we\u2019ll do it.\u201d And then to get there and think, \u201cOh God, we\u2019ve got to go to hospital now. Oh, I\u2019ve got to cancel the gig. Sorry about that.\u201d That wouldn\u2019t be fair at all. It\u2019s better to be upfront and just say, \u201cLook, can\u2019t do it. Sorry.\u201d And I am sorry.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Peter Hook &amp; The Light &quot;Atmosphere&quot; (Joy Division Song) LIVE | Boston, MA | September 4, 2026\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/_m7__aRBaFM?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/music\/music-features\/peter-hook-new-order-truce-reunion-rock-hall-1235551291\/\">Peter Hook has been very vocal in the press<\/a> about, well, most everything. Are you hoping one day there can be a reconciliation?<\/strong><br \/>Peter can be very vocal about everything, really. He\u2019s quite an angry person. Basically, he doesn\u2019t seem happy. He doesn\u2019t strike me as being happy. He was happy in Joy Division, I think. But even that I\u2019m not entirely sure of because he doesn\u2019t seem happy about anything. He didn\u2019t seem happy in New Order. He doesn\u2019t seem happy playing New Order songs. And we\u2019re awful, awful people that we\u2019ve been to him. And, yeah, that\u2019s a bit upsetting, really. Will there ever be reconciliation? I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know. They do say life\u2019s too short.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>The dream for a lot of fans is for the four of you to get together somewhere and play one last song. But that feels more like fan fiction than any reality.<\/strong><br \/>That would be a song with a long intro.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Getting back to the box set to wrap up here, it really is an amazing thing to just be immersed in the world of Joy Division for hours. It\u2019s like this lost world.<\/strong><br \/>I\u2019m glad you like it. It was something that needed doing really, and I think we\u2019ve done a pretty good job on it really, considering.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Might you do something similar with New Order, or if there are simply too many tapes and it\u2019s completely overwhelming?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. I can see it. We\u2019re doing the definitive album box sets. I think that <em>Technique<\/em> is the next one, which is going to be interesting how we approach it. But I enjoy it. I like going through the tapes and pointing out, \u201cThis isn\u2019t the right one.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Well, at least you guys are finally in the Hall of Fame.\u00a0 I know it may not mean a lot to you, but\u2026<\/strong><br \/>No, don\u2019t get me wrong. I\u2019m not ungrateful. I think it\u2019s fantastic. I really appreciate that the band is being appreciated, but more than that, I think it\u2019s well over\u2026I mean, Gram Parsons? He should have been in years ago.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>Same with you guys.<\/strong><br \/>I know it\u2019s a bit of a cheat. We only get in as a double header. We got Joy Division\/New Order. It\u2019s kind of like, are we a bargain basement thing?<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>When the Small Faces and the Faces got in together, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/music\/music-news\/faces-small-faces-ian-mclagan-warming-to-hall-of-fame-induction-243003\/\">Ian McLagan told me the same thing.<\/a> He was pretty furious about it.<\/strong><br \/>I\u2019m not furious. I mean, it\u2019s great. It\u2019s really good that people acknowledge that you might have done something good. I just personally cannot see the point of an award ceremony or receiving in any way, shape or form. I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019m not ungrateful. I just don\u2019t get it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>So it might just be Peter Hook at the podium accepting for all four of you?<\/strong><br \/>Yeah. That\u2019ll be an angry speech, won\u2019t it. Maybe I\u2019ll go with a therapist or something.<\/p>\n<section class=\"brands-most-popular \/\/ recirculation-modules trending-in-article lrv-u-margin-tb-2 lrv-u-border-a-2 u-box-shadow-5-5 lrv-u-padding-lr-1 a-span1 u-padding-b-1@tablet u-overflow-hidden\">\n<h2 id=\"section-heading\" class=\"c-heading larva  lrv-u-text-align-center u-border-color-black a-font-theme-primary-xxs lrv-u-color-black lrv-u-text-transform-uppercase u-letter-spacing-0063 lrv-u-padding-t-050 u-padding-b-0375@tablet lrv-u-padding-b-050@mobile-max lrv-u-border-b-2\">\n<p>\t\tTrending Stories<\/p>\n<\/h2>\n<\/section>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>That would be amazing. I\u2019ll let you go now, but I\u2019m sorry to hear you\u2019re dealing with health problems.<\/strong><br \/>That\u2019s life. And who knows, one day\u2026you never know, do you?<\/p>\n<p class=\"paragraph larva \/\/ lrv-u-line-height-copy  lrv-a-font-body-l   \">\n\t<strong>You\u2019re remarkably cheerful and positive.<\/strong><br \/>Well, the alternative isn\u2019t worth considering.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\">\n<p>\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"New Order - Ceremony (Live in New York City 1981)\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/tOuvg68oQPo?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/p>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p><br \/>\n<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/music\/music-features\/joy-division-stephen-morris-interview-rock-hall-health-1235622483\/\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A little over a year after Joy Division frontman Ian Curtis committed suicide, the remaining members of the band \u2014 who were already touring&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":72260,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[36],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-72259","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pop","article","has-excerpt","has-avatar","has-author","has-date","has-comment-count","has-category-meta","has-read-more","thumbnail-"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/72259","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=72259"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/72259\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/72260"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=72259"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=72259"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/musicianvoice.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=72259"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}