Early in our Zoom interview, which Givēon takes from a moving vehicle, I ask him point-blank: “Who hurt you?” He’s on his way to California’s Lucerne Valley desert to perform songs from his excellent sophomore album, Beloved. Set on a reflective stage in the sand for a Spotify exclusive, he’ll sing over a string section with violin and cello, three horns, two background singers, drums, guitar, bass, and keyboard — similar to how the album itself was made. With this rich backdrop, Beloved is full of next-generation, old-school heartbreak, channeling seventies soul across very modern songs about his dating highs and lows — mostly lows, and that’s why I need to know what went wrong.
“I feel like my feelings are always being hurt, but my feelings being hurt and me being hurt are probably kind of two different things,” he answers. When I mention that that sounds like a mature differentiation, he says, “I guess it’s like I’m in my accountability bucket now, so I’m wording it like that.” He tells me that he’s often felt unappreciated in his love life, but realized he was pouring too much of himself into his relationships too quickly, making it hard for things to feel reciprocal. “So when there’s an inconvenience, it would hurt my feelings more than probably the average person,” he explains.
In our four-star review, printed in the July/August issue of Rolling Stone, I wrote that Beloved especially shines when it embraces how complicated heartache can be. There are songs where Givēon lingers in limbo, like the “Backup Plan,” where he watches anxiously as his lover quietly contemplates leaving him. And, Givēon tells me, it’s all autobiographical. The album is colored by several of his relationships and has been tinkered with over the span of three years.
Just one of his former romances was relatively high-profile, with the singer Justine Skye, and onlookers speculated that it had a seemingly sticky end. When I ask him if love and loss in the public eye had any bearing on Beloved, he says, “I was about to say, ‘no, not really,’ because my last public [relationship] was like four or five years ago. I was in a relationship after. But I think I’m always – maybe subconsciously – influenced. Even my song ‘Twenties,’ that was just a bird’s eye view of just the last decade. So there were multiple people in there. [A] thing that entices me to write a song is if I’m feeling [something] and then I reflect on it and [see] I went through it multiple times, that’s when I really know it’s going to resonate with the public. Because if I’ve been through this multiple times, I know there’s somebody who’s been through it at least once.”
Here, Givēon talks through Beloved being feature-less, his plans to tour the album, what he’s learned about himself in the process, and where today’s R&B goes wrong.
How did you get into your accountability era?
I kept ending up in the same place, and I was like, “Oh wait, you can’t keep blaming.” Because at some point, you got to take responsibility for even just the people in your life. I write the songs based off of…it’s all autobiographical. So then I’ll get inspired to write something, and I’m like, “Wait, I wrote this song already.” So that means I was in a cycle. I was like, “Yo, if you still in this cycle, you got to look in the mirror” – which I hate. But then I would look and be like, “Oh, okay.”
I think this album [is] like a photograph. Once you look at a photo, you start noticing stuff you didn’t see before. So after I finished this album, I was listening to it and looking at it was just like, “Oh, that’s just not a person I think I would want my daughter to date.” At that point, I got to just actually do the work. I’m able to forgo accountability because I just have privileges, whether it’s because of my talents or looks, my taste, all those things. So, because of that, sometimes I can avoid accountability because I can still get the outcomes that I want. Sometimes people are forced to take accountability because stuff is falling apart around [them], but me, it’s like my lack of accountability gets celebrated because of my craft.
Because of the music that you’re able to make with it, and then the status that it gives you.
And even to a point where people – I mean, it’s just a joke, though – but they desire [for] me to be in a failed relationship. So it’s just easy to just be like, “Well, it’s just all a part of it,” but it’s like, no, you got to grow up at some point.
On the album, it sounds like you also pour a lot — perhaps too much — of yourself into the early stages of a relationship.
I’m a date-to-marry type of guy. I wouldn’t have a girlfriend just to be like, “Hey, this is my girlfriend.” So I think that’s why it’s so intense, because I’m approaching it as if this is about to be my wife.
I thought about that when I heard the Beloved song “Avalanche,” where you essentially say, “I don’t even know you, but I’m thinking about getting married.”
Yeah, I always do that so quick, think about the houses, the kids. It could be the first day, and I’m like, “Okay, how would this look later?”
There are no features on your album, but I love the Teddy Swims song “Are You Even Real” that you’re on. Did you two have to talk about being as infatuated with a person in real life as you guys sing about there?
Because he’s in a relationship — he’s just had a baby, actually — I knew that he’s very grateful and very much in love, just in the way he talks about his lady publicly and even to me. I felt that way before, so I was able to just tap into and exercise that. But I think for other people’s [music], I kind of operate a little differently. For me, I’m like an album, world-building type of artist, so it’s kind of a little different.
Do you see yourself having features on your albums in the future? Or do you think that it’s always going to be so personal to you that you need to do it by yourself?
If I’m in a studio with someone and we’re having real conversations, and then it naturally comes along, then [okay]. Me and Teddy are full-blown friends now. I feel like the early features in my career were so organic to where it just sets the bar really high [to]being like, “Oh, yeah, I’m not just going to do a feature just to do it.” I also feel like some people just throw a feature on the album just for, I guess, name’s sake, or for people to engage and be like, “Oh, this person’s on this album,” and then you listen to the verse and they’re talking about two completely different things. It’s like, why are you even on there? [For me] it’s more on a friendship basis.
So does that mean you and Justin Bieber and Daniel Caesar are friends now, post “Peaches”?
Well, yeah. I mean, more around that time though, because my life completely changed. It was like I was all over the place, running around here, touring here, festivals here. But around that time, yes. [Bieber] FaceTimed me and was just like, “Hey, what do you think about this?” I was like, “Yeah, let me try it.” So it would have to be on that rapport. Or even Drake, it was like we would text and then it’d be like, “Hey, let me try this,” that type of thing.
Did you record with the same instrumentalists for the whole album?
Yes. Same group of guys. I wanted it to feel cohesive. Everyone has different play styles and sounds. If I just added a different horn player or different strings, I feel like it’d throw off the cohesiveness of the album. So yeah, it’s a family. I want people to approach it like it’s our album. I like the idea where at the end of a movie there’s just a million credits of people and each one of [them] are going to feel validated if that movie succeeds. They’re going to be like, “Yeah, my movie won this award.” That’s how I want people to feel. I want them to take pride in it. That’s why even on tour, me and my band, we just hang out, so they feel like it’s their show, and then everyone plays better. I wanted to feel like I’m in a band. I think it’s like an only child who just wishes they have siblings. It’s like I get to pick my siblings.
As an only child, I get that.
You’re an only child? I got so many siblings. My mom has four boys, and my dad has five kids including me. So three daughters and two sons. I feel like an only child in music [though], because I don’t make a lot of music with my peers. I think it’s just the way I operate because I legit want to be your friend first, and I don’t take that word lightly.
Entertainment is also a weird industry to make friends in.
It all happened for me so quick that I didn’t lose my actual identity. So if I’m in a room, I’m approaching someone like, “Hey, what’s up, man,” normal. But it took some people a lot more time to get to the exact same spot, so they learn different mannerisms or different ways to move. So our hellos aren’t even the same. So I was just like, I don’t have time to be navigating “Is that a real hello or is that a performative hello?”
I’m so interested in what you think of the R&B landscape right now, because there isn’t a ton that sounds like Beloved.
I have a couple takes. The first take is I think it would be healthier to have multiple points of views. Because yes, it’s about making good music, but we also go to artists to hear how they would look at something, their point of view. And I feel like the male point of view is missing. I guess that could be partially my fault because I haven’t dropped. But I think it’s important to have [both]. If a lady R&B artist is saying this, I think it’s interesting to have just the man’s perspective, even if it’s wrong.
And I think this goes for more than just rhythm and blues: I just think we listen to the audience a little bit too much. Because of that, everyone kind of sounds the same. I don’t think it’s healthy for people to be making what they [think they] should be making. Just make what moves you, and if it moves someone, it moves them. If it sticks, it sticks.
What would you say that the same sound is? What are the trends that you’re seeing that you feel like people can move away from?
I feel like it’s too digital. I feel like people need to move back to analog a little bit, live instrumentation. I [do] know how hard it is to do it, how expensive it is to do it. And I love a hip-hop/R&B influence. PartyNextDoor is one of my favorite artists, but we already have a PartyNextDoor. I just feel like if you point out certain artists, it’s just that’s their sound. There’s not many R&B artists with their own sound. They’re just mirroring something that they think will work.
When you’re going to recognize my voice, you’re going to recognize my vocal delivery; you’re going to recognize even my writing. And now with this sound [on Beloved], this is going to become my sound, contemporary, soulful…I’m stamping this. This sound is me because no one else is doing it. I think other people should do that as well. It would benefit them in the long run to find their sound instead of following the sound.
How this album is going to translate to the live show – I think it’s going to be magical because the album was made live, so it’s made to be performed live. It’s going to be my best tour. I want to do strings, I want to do horns, I want to do background vocals, so I feel like [I’ll have] a full eight to 10 piece [backing band], depending on how big the stages are. The album is really a movie, it’s a world, and I want the night to feel like that. If it was up to me, everybody would dress a certain way, but I’ll just heavily hint at it.
That reminds me of how everybody wears shades of brown to Victoria Monét shows. I feel like you could finesse that.
Yeah, for sure. Because I want it to feel like an event. I remember I was on tour and when I was bored or traveling city to city, I would watch a get-ready-with-me or a vlog for that show [afterwards]. For me, it’s like I get to the city, I get ready, I do the show, then I leave. It’s like a three-hour experience. But what I realized is people wake up and their whole day is about this show. That made me perform even harder because I’m like, “This is someone’s whole day.” I want it to be worth it. These tickets are expensive. I know how hard it is too.
How did you make sure that Beloved wasn’t just a caricature of Philadelphia soul or Al Green or all these other things that already exist? It’s clearly indebted to those influences, but it doesn’t sound like a parody.
I think that’s just a natural thing from being a fan of music in general. I consume music across the board that I like and then at the end it creates this cocktail of my own sound. Yes, I’ll listen to Teddy Pendergrass, but then I’ll also listen to underground rap from Atlanta. And then on top of that I’ll go listen to maybe one country song – I don’t listen to a bunch of country – but then I’ll bounce over and listen to PartyNextDoor. And then from PartyNextDoor, I’ll go listen to Frank Ocean’s Blond. Because of that, it’s not like I’m copying. That’s just something that moves me and then it runs through my own filter.
I think your single “Twenties” has an interesting perspective on that decade. Looking back on your twenties now as someone in your thirties , what are the things that you wouldn’t waste your time with anymore? And then what are the things that you would do more of if you could go back?
I think I wouldn’t pursue someone just because I can see myself with them or because I’m attracted to them. I value friendship with a woman. It’s priceless. There’s so much perspective. There’s just a different grace. I have my guy friends, but my girl friends, it’s just very valuable. But before, I would just be like, “Oh, I’m attracted to this girl and we could get along.” That’s a friend though. You don’t have to date every girl you’re attracted to or that you like.
I feel like that would’ve kept me out of a lot of distractions. Everything else, I think I’ve always just been very authentic and true to myself. I don’t really let too much outside noise throw me off. I was never the type to say what I was going to do. I just end up doing it and that’s when people would find out about it. So I like the route I took. If I started changing too much, then I wouldn’t be where I’m at today. And I love where I’m at today. [I’d] just [have] more friends instead of girlfriends. Just have a little more discipline. A little more discernment.
